tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post2689264200563073788..comments2024-03-08T19:47:41.485+11:00Comments on Ascii Dreams: Request for votes: Ascii Dreams Roguelike of the Year 2011Andrew Doullhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11099404183952971291noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-60927510838632969932011-12-26T12:47:54.116+11:002011-12-26T12:47:54.116+11:00I personally don't count Dark Souls as a rogue...I personally don't count Dark Souls as a roguelike. It doesn't have perma-death or randomly generated dungeons.<br /><br />It is a very hard and unforgiving game though and falls into the action/adventure RPG genre. If I wanted to compare it to other games I'd say it harkens back to the days of old NES titles in terms of difficulty with a lot of modern day stuff added in, like an extremely unique online game play element, modern day graphics, and a very deep combat system.<br /><br />A great game for sure and it certainly has some roguelike elements (it's a very hard and unforgiving action adventure/rpg game after all) but it is missing some key things I see as defining the roguelike genre (perma-death for one).Eric Michael Wykoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01558900725659405013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-36322614135439236022011-12-26T11:24:25.255+11:002011-12-26T11:24:25.255+11:00Joseph: No it wasn't, although a random elemen...Joseph: No it wasn't, although a random element that I think has a similar effect is that other players can "invade" your world at any point (well, as long as you're in human form) and will typically be at your strength or above. You also get people with the ability to curse your world which will spawn stronger and different enemies than that would normally be there until you go into their world and kill them.Devotohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16158835640130745905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-63809040821423130292011-12-25T22:07:54.194+11:002011-12-25T22:07:54.194+11:00Was Dark Souls a procedurally generated game?Was Dark Souls a procedurally generated game?Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09866329313708655247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-66491138007144970672011-12-25T22:00:16.612+11:002011-12-25T22:00:16.612+11:00ToME is at 666, this is the final proof I am evil ...ToME is at 666, this is the final proof I am evil ! :)Linaniil of the Kar'Krulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024097676060828945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-97650351081022672011-12-25T18:39:42.597+11:002011-12-25T18:39:42.597+11:00Another Dark Souls fan here :) It's actually ...Another Dark Souls fan here :) It's actually been the main reason I've taken a break from Tome.Eric Michael Wykoffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01558900725659405013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-67017928525798642802011-12-25T07:25:28.782+11:002011-12-25T07:25:28.782+11:00Devoto: Again, Dark Souls (and Demon's Souls, ...Devoto: Again, Dark Souls (and Demon's Souls, last year) didn't qualify because they didn't meet the qualification requirements, not because they couldn't be seen as roguelikes.Andrew Doullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11099404183952971291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-69615772917839451622011-12-25T06:57:18.756+11:002011-12-25T06:57:18.756+11:00So no Dark Souls? I can't help but see it as a...So no Dark Souls? I can't help but see it as a Roguelike, at least if the genre wasn't so defined by stubbornly appearing to be made in the 80s.Devotohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16158835640130745905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-31341160352661087612011-12-25T05:27:00.690+11:002011-12-25T05:27:00.690+11:00@parisian goldfish: You presume that Brogue won...@parisian goldfish: You presume that Brogue won't be getting as much better next year as it did this year. There's a lot of room for attrition from Crawl's ranks, even! Brogue's done great in this poll, and since it doesn't have much of a community to itself (I mean, it's mostly people who play other roguelikes, too, and a lot of them read this blog), its votes are all the more precious.Joshua Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14664268603479430836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-56482821596741004632011-12-23T01:23:51.680+11:002011-12-23T01:23:51.680+11:00@Holsety - I don't need a poll to tell me that...@Holsety - I don't need a poll to tell me that!parisian goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12765601205504082696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-32094240337077442572011-12-22T23:59:58.574+11:002011-12-22T23:59:58.574+11:00"Anything that has more than a handful of vot..."Anything that has more than a handful of votes obviously has enough fans to warrant looking at"<br /><br />I know what you mean, but I wouldn't say it this way, because it could be interpreted as "sth. with fans must be good in a way" -- and for all those who dislike DoD, for example, this would not be true; for them, it would be "sth. with fans can also be bad if the fans are wrong". ;-)<br /><br />Anyway, that's not important. I think every game on the list deserves some recognition, and it may even be a good idea to NOT look into the winners, but explicitly look into the games with 50 to 100 votes, or 10 to 20 (hehe).Mario Donickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11328496679043842250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-31084686233974049762011-12-22T23:50:31.236+11:002011-12-22T23:50:31.236+11:00No matter the reservations one must admit that ToM...No matter the reservations one must admit that ToME has released enough good stuff this year to be recognized as "Roguelike Of The Year." <br /><br />But given just one vote I too would vote for Brogue. As best of the year and as my favorite roguelike to play.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09866329313708655247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-54769970377687595402011-12-22T23:41:47.656+11:002011-12-22T23:41:47.656+11:00I think the title of the poll should be changed to...I think the title of the poll should be changed to "Roguelike<i>s</i> of the Year" to represent the fact that first place isn't all-important. Anything that has more than a handful of votes obviously has enough fans to warrant looking at. To disallow ToME4 or Crawl would be a shame considering how much both have improved this year.Darren Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00792164422274663420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-34777720412924354432011-12-22T20:58:42.872+11:002011-12-22T20:58:42.872+11:00@parisian goldfish
Despite being called Roguelike ...@parisian goldfish<br />Despite being called Roguelike of the Year, the poll is more about seeing what roguelikes people have enjoyed, and maybe getting people to try some new ones. (Correct me if I'm completely wrong)<br /><br />I think it's safe to say that ToME and DoD are pretty popular, haha.Holsetyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06631119179902223365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-10345987733033886582011-12-22T20:36:50.693+11:002011-12-22T20:36:50.693+11:00Please for the love of god can you make the previo...Please for the love of god can you make the previous year's winner ineligible for voting so we don't have DCSS and Tome winning for all eternity.<br /><br />It's games like Brogue that really deserve the title this year, but this poll is really just a reflection of popularity, I doubt very few people are voting for the roguelike they think has shone the most this year.parisian goldfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12765601205504082696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-32921219408378711582011-12-22T04:48:15.665+11:002011-12-22T04:48:15.665+11:00As an early purchaser of Legerdemain back when the...As an early purchaser of Legerdemain back when the Canticle/CD combo was first released, while lamentable, I'm not surprised.<br /><br />This year saw a widely accessible update that had the graphical version of the game playable at long last. Beyond that, and since release, there were some updates when things were fresh but then a vast swath of time lacking anything. Even just things like devblogs that analyze other Roguelike happenings at the times, dev hurdles, injecting itself alongside other fellow travellers---none of these things went down to stimulate things. The outfit itself is a multi-pronged sort last working on that epic poem tome The Boviniad, so that also factors into things.<br /><br />Granted, there are cases where a game just gets "done", is released solid, etc---but for the purposes of a poll like this, and the now teeming sea of Roguelikes, things NEED to be Lively for best odds. DoD and ToME 4 especially have had rather visible and aggressively meaty updates at a breakneck pace---others have been perhaps even faster but less visible/trackable to the browsing public at large like Caves of Qud and Cataclysm. Every new, visible release refreshes discussion anew, gets the game back in peoples' heads, and create a chance for a newcomer to come across the project along the whole "Hey, that's new to me!" angle.<br /><br />Story Roguelikes have an inherently rougher road to trod given that they need to excel in the Story while also satisfying the traditional cravings for the Player Story that lends to oft recounted YASD's and YAVP's and whatnot. Staying in the news, drawing from the strengths of other projects, and hopefully spurring ideally some video, or at least screenshot, Let's Plays are pretty good goals to chase after. Stories tend to stick around via making a splash, and the first part to that is reaching the audiences that can strike a chord and growing from there.<br /><br />All in all, there's about as many varied elements to getting a Roguelike successful with some degree of sustainability as there is to completing one of any given stripe with fleshed out difficulty of play.Brian Jeffearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15444299963610329817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-52315806555704476822011-12-22T00:23:19.419+11:002011-12-22T00:23:19.419+11:00Well, that DoD indeed IS a roguelike has been disc...Well, that DoD indeed IS a roguelike has been discussed in this thread for a while now. There are easy and difficult games, simple and complex, in all genres, and roguelikes are nothing different, nothing elitist.<br /><br />Side note: I find it very sad that Legerdemain only got 19 votes so far. Because Legerdemain is, besides LambdaRogue, the only roguelike with a strong emphasis on game world and story, and a very good one in this regard. It's also complex enough.<br /><br />(And: Despite my nickname here, I'm Mario Donick, the LambdaRogue dev. Voted for LR and Legerdemain ;) )Mario Donickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11328496679043842250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-12762056842690025242011-12-21T23:28:33.437+11:002011-12-21T23:28:33.437+11:00Yes it seems to have divided the community. But it...Yes it seems to have divided the community. But it has also increased the visibility of all roguelikes. It looks like there is a strong contingent of players going for easier to get into roguelikes. But the complex roguelikes with more of a learning curve are doing very well. As are the simple ones with the classical style (brogue) and the sandbox ones (DF and Goblin Camp).<br /><br />We'll see how it plays out in the end.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09866329313708655247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-77585515748651266842011-12-20T21:17:44.166+11:002011-12-20T21:17:44.166+11:00I can't believe how many votes DoD has! it'...I can't believe how many votes DoD has! it's barely serviceable at all as a roguelike, I wouldn't force it on a child over the age of 6.damanbouyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00664053577419256617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-13964867230423796732011-12-20T02:03:46.314+11:002011-12-20T02:03:46.314+11:00As a side note, today ToME4 passed ten thousands d...As a side note, today ToME4 passed <a href="http://te4.org/blogs/darkgod/2011/12/news/over-ten-thousand-days-player-tome4" rel="nofollow">ten thousands days</a> of playtime!Linaniil of the Kar'Krulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13024097676060828945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-80974053785279835202011-12-19T10:05:50.094+11:002011-12-19T10:05:50.094+11:00Nice idea Collen, but I am not sure whether votes ...Nice idea Collen, but I am not sure whether votes would like such extra voting.<br /><br />In case if somebody does not know it yet, you can also vote for your favorite or least favorite roguelikes by rating them on IRLDb: http://roguetemple.com/irldb/index.php?i=4451b8&s=21.22.22 This is linked to a Roguetemple forum account (and you can create your profile which lists your experience with all games), so you need to create a in order to vote. Unfortunately Dredmor does not appear here yet (since it was not on RogueBasin), but I have added it to RogueBasin, so it should appear shortly.Zeno Roguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01631779018547033181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-88044300288681766032011-12-18T15:22:08.602+11:002011-12-18T15:22:08.602+11:00I think a useful change to this review is a second...I think a useful change to this review is a second checklist of how many games the person has tried. So if they choose one and they've tried even 40%, that's good to know as opposed to they've chosen one and have only tried several this year.<br /><br />Also, I think a second breakdown of how many voters have tried the games on the list is also useful (sorted in terms of popularity).<br /><br />This could encourage people to try more roguelikes rather than just what people are saying is the 'best'.Collen Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00806653873520448005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-16091434839565657212011-12-18T07:20:42.523+11:002011-12-18T07:20:42.523+11:00Steam worked for Dungeons of Dredmor and Binding o...Steam worked for Dungeons of Dredmor and Binding of Isaac---but I'd caution against the notion that they go for all types, especially on the RPG/Roguelike front. Soldak Entertainment has literally been trying for years to get their latest and greatest on Steam to no avail, literally not even getting a reasoning to work from, despite them being far more "Interesting" along Roguelike sensibilites(Din's Curse: Demon War--if you can't see some really good mechanics to consider on NPC interaction and some other bits then I just don't know what to tell you) than Diablo III will be by far and the studio being an established Independent operation.<br /><br />Desura has the benefit of being fine and dandy with outright free games alongside commercial as they are intending to grow along the niches and generally be supportive---a few other similar portals share this mindset but Desura was first off the starting line and thus far maintains a good distance in front. The whole Win/Linux thing is also more...apt...to be a good consideration for the Roguelike scene considering the historical doings and demographics.<br /><br />There's never been a better time for prospective and existing devs, for the most part, to get it out there and achieve in general on the lot of it---2012 looking to continue that trend.Brian Jeffearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15444299963610329817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-2504943290824757112011-12-18T05:23:45.230+11:002011-12-18T05:23:45.230+11:00@Joseph:
>Roguelikes have diversified to the po...@Joseph:<br />>Roguelikes have diversified to the point now that I think we'll be able to start doing this. <br />>You can conclude by such analysis which are the most popular types of roguelikes.<br /><br />I see what you mean. Just like how the Rogue Basin mentioned the Major Roguelikes (and previously the Major Classic Roguelikes) as "most influential".<br />Haha, bandlike and hacklike really did stop being the major distinction a long time ago...<br /><br />>Certain people liked certain kinds and these people fell into discrete statistical categories.<br /><br />>From there you can figure out how common those preferences are in a given population and stock your sauces (or make your games) accordingly.<br /><br />Interesting way of looking at it, to be sure. <br />Food for thought concerning the "make your games accordingly" part;<br />To quote Ulf Åström (The Slimy Lichmummy, old version of the site via Wayback Machine);<br /><br />"Q: But why not!? (to any of the above)<br />A: I do this for fun and don't want to waste time adding features or solving problems I don't find interesting or need myself."<br /><br />Truly an example of a person making a game (S)HE wishes to play, and then sharing it with the rest of us. For me, that's one of the appeals of the roguelike genre. <br /><br />>Wouldn't that be a blast. Futile but fun!<br />I haven't read it yet and I'm already amused :)<br /><br />@Brian:<br />>how stark the contrast between Commercial Roguelikes not on Steam AND Desura<br />Steam has a huge userbase and allows indie games, so it's a great platform for a commercial roguelike. Desura's good too (as you mentioned, they don't mind games taking the minecraft-approach), with the added bonus of getting your game on their Indie Royale bundle?<br /><br />Commercial roguelikes do need a certain amount of arm waving to get noticed though, indeed.<br /><br />>Desktop Dungeons<br />Had so much publicity early on. Most of it kind of dissipated after it made the switch to Unity.<br />Very curious to see whether the changes from the free version will be enough to net it significant sales.<br /><br />@Maurog<br />>Steam is pretty liberal with adding free games to its library, so just make sure to include a tutorial for new people, tack a few hundred achievements to your game and go for it!<br /><br />You'd think so, but all the free2play games on it have some form of microtransaction built in. (They're usually also dead/dying MMOs)<br />Unless there's some form of money to be made by Valve, I doubt they'll add free games such as roguelikes.Holsetyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06631119179902223365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-10675070697662316432011-12-18T02:32:20.810+11:002011-12-18T02:32:20.810+11:00Hah, this whole Dredmor debate reminds me that on ...Hah, this whole Dredmor debate reminds me that on the next year's roguelike poll we might have Diablo III. How will people like THOSE apples I wonder...<br /><br />Anyway, yeah both Dredmor and Binding of Isaac are roguelikes and so they should be on the list. And as we can all see, Steam power will get you quite far in the publicity department.<br /><br />Perhaps if more roguelike developers manage to get their stuff on Steam, we will witness a roguelike Renaissance. Steam is pretty liberal with adding free games to its library, so just make sure to include a tutorial for new people, tack a few hundred achievements to your game and go for it!Mauroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10976177007267293880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2208890564265615027.post-35397162725288074622011-12-18T00:37:49.290+11:002011-12-18T00:37:49.290+11:00@Joseph Hey now, I've(getter77) been randomly...@Joseph Hey now, I've(getter77) been randomly interjecting rants to mention Flatspace II over on Roguetemple for a long time now, one of my more common hand wringings alongside the lamentable fate of the Jaunt Trooper series and the mourning of Dungeonmans---the game that "could have been the Dredmor" if only things apparently hadn't imploded internally and that every melee combat Roguelike should harvest the corpse for good dynamic melee notions... ; )<br /><br />@ Holsety<br /><br />I reckon it will be even more of a pronounced thing going forward for next year's polling---how stark the contrast between Commercial Roguelikes not on Steam AND Desura (Seriously people, for god's sake try to get on Desura as the mod/indiedb crowds relish in the non-standard and the service plays very nice with alpha and beta projects, versus Steam! Also, obviously given the above parentage, they know and like to vote on things of all sorts!)<br /><br />Cardinal Quest 2 will probably be able to better jump out at people, as do I hope is the case for Hack, Slash, Loot that I recently took advantage of the pre-order offer on as my sense is that the game is nearly there from the Twitter updates and such. I'll be amazed if Desktop Dungeons doesn't make some major rounds given the press behind them and maybe Unity throwing some weight around in the marketplace. CQ's free online demo Classic thing is a pretty good representation of the game, but these days portals are the next step up from enthusiast sites in terms of broadening the mindshare of attention so things can get found.Brian Jeffearshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15444299963610329817noreply@blogger.com