Wednesday, 28 November 2012

A list of games that is intended to provoke some discussion

99 Levels to Hell
Afterlife 3: Legends of Rickard Bronson
Cave Rescue
Cardinal Quest II
Cargo Commander
Claustrophobia: The Downward Struggle
Crossword Dungeon
Crystal Catacombs
Dary's Legend
Diehard Dungeon
Dungeon Dashers
Enter Thy Name
Flight of the Maxima
Fog and Thunder
Hack, Slash, Loot
Hallowmorn Dungeon
House of the Lost
HyperRogue III
Legend of Dungeon
Minicraft 2
Mysterious Castle
NEO Scavenger
Pineapple Smash Crew
Probability 0
Project gnh20/The game of my dream (sb3dgraph)
Second Wind
Spelunky HTML 5
Spelunky XBLA
Steam Marines
Stella-111: A Cosmic Voyage
Super Office Stress
Sword of the Stars: The Pit
The Liberate Pixil Cup Quest
The Wizard's Lair
Tower Climb
Voxel Heroes
Voyage to Farland
Weird Worlds: Return to Infinite Space

Key words I'm looking for in the comments section: 'No publicly playable release between 14th December 2011 and present day'. I count demos as playable releases. I'm also looking for thoughts on whether invite only or Kickstarter contribution only counts as publicly playable.


Andrew Doull said...

This is not the final list, but I am also interested in other roguelikes which may not have made the Actively Developed list of roguelikes, or Rogue Basin releases.

Darren Grey said...

I think it's wrong to include demos or anything with just an alpha release. Anyway, I've started a thread on for people to discuss:


Andrew Doull said...

Darren: Alpha releases or demos on Rogue Basin/list of Actively developed Roguelikes do qualify.

Also you'll need to amend the list you've posted to Rogue Temple, as I've just added a whole lot more games.

HunterZ said...

Why is FTL on that list? Can't you buy it now on Steam and GOG?

I like FTL, but I still don't understand why it's considered a roguelike. I'm not sure if it's even a roguelike-like.

Random map layouts are definitely a ubiquitous feature of roguelikes, but is it the core feature such that having them is sufficient criteria for classifying a game as a roguelike?

Nolithius said...

Hey Andrew, what is the idea behind this list? Roguelike/likes released this year?

RogerN said...

[shameless plug] Would you mind including Malastro in the list? :)

Kyzrati said...

It may make sense at this point to come up with a set of concrete rules for inclusion, and stick to it, otherwise this list of games "for discussion" is going to get longer and longer each year, and end up covering all the same topics of what is and isn't a roguelike, again and again and again...

It can be specific, like Berlin, or less about the rules and more about the community, like "is it on RogueBasin."

Maybe the community could actually vote: It would be interesting to group some games by gameplay style and do a poll to see what everyone thinks--should the games be included for voting as a roguelike or not.

Andrew Doull said...

Nolithius: See the thread Darren has started for more explicit commentary.

RogerN: Sure.

Kyzrati: I had a system. It proved inadequate. This list is an attempt to come up with a more robust system.

You get to vote when I put the actual poll up. And I think you're labouring under the misapprehension that the Berlin Interpretation is in any way specific.

Kyzrati said...

I was only pointing out Berlin as an example of a list of features--I don't use it myself, nor do many others since most people seem to go on what "feels" like a roguelike to them, anyway, or have their own "personal list".

So I must ask: What's going to happen with Diablo III? On the list?

Darren Grey said...

I think that it should come down to "Does anyone in the community feel motivated to put an entry on RogueBasin", with some extra prodding around this time of year to remind people of things they might want to add. Thus if someone somewhere thinks it's a roguelike and thinks so enough they'll take 2 minutes to make a wiki article then it qualifies for the list. After that the community votes en masse for what they want as Roguelike of the Year - if it's not a very good roguelike (Diablo III, IMO) then perhaps it won't get many votes.

Of course there's still the problem of multiple voting. Andrew, have you considered a more robust system based on IP address to cut this down a little?

Joseph said...

Issue 1: Diablo III can TOTALLY throw off your poll in a very bad bad way. Tons of people are just Diablo fans, not roguelike fans. You know what I mean? You run the risk of that community finding your poll and voting, people who have never even heard the term roguelike.

On the other hand, that level of exposure might be awesome. Also what if a more fringe roguelike beats Diablo III? That would be nice.

Issue 2: Can I petition to have my Cardlike 2.0 included? It was released only on Temple of the Roguelike, is that public enough? I can create a Roguebasin page if that helps my case.

Andrew Doull said...

Joseph: You've hit one of the nails on the head.

Cardlike is fine.

Paul Jeffries said...

Can I self-nominate AS.T.Ro for inclusion? I've not put it on RogueBasin yet since even though I'm no stranger to shameless self-promotion for some reason it just feels wrong to me to do it on a wiki.

Anonymous said...

I have just finished updating the Actively Developed Roguelikes List. Malastro is there. As are some other games.

However, in my opinion, most of the titles Andrew enumerated do not qualify as roguelikes, despite using the roguelike formula. They do not fit the genre. Remember I am trying to be conservative on the extreme with the ADRL list. Berlin interpretation is the key here.

I ignore closed releases like ADOM nonpublic prealphas. For the purpose of the list ADOM is *not* considered actively developed anymore. On the other hand demos and alpha builds are just that - effective game releases.

Commits to public game source repositories also count as releases. The difference is potential player needs to put more effort to play such "release". However, I will not go out of my way to pick up cues on github or similar sites unless the place is flagged as game's home or the project investigated has not been updated for long. "Long" usually evaluates to several months at least.

Darren Grey said...

From the Berlin Interpretation:

"This list can be used to determine how roguelike a game is. Missing some points does not mean the game is not a roguelike. Likewise, possessing some points does not mean the game is a roguelike.

The purpose of the definition is for the roguelike community to better understand what the community is studying. It is not to place constraints on developers or games."

I suggest that the poll should be as inclusive as possible. If people don't think a game is a roguelike then they shouldn't vote it as "Roguelike of the Year".

Joseph said...

I think Darren has the best attitude. The poll's makeup is not a judgement so much on somethings roguelikeness. Voters can decide that.

Andrew Doull said...

MichaƂ: I agree your approach is entirely appropriate for the ADRL list. With the exception I disagree that Desktop Dungeons is a roguelike ;)

Thanks also for taking the time to get the list up to date.

It is, however, only one of the sources that I'll be using for this poll.

Ed said...

15 December 2011? Did you choose that date for the express purpose of excluding Nethack?

Andrew Doull said...

Ed: No. And it's the 14th (13th elsewhere in the world).

Anonymous said...

Just put up an anti-Borderlands 2 rant on the linked roguetemple site.

Please be so kind as to visit it :)

P.S. If my arguments against B2 fail to convince you, please give me the opportunity to argue for Mass Effect 3 being included.